pH problem

[SnailorJ]

Hi guys,

I'm about to leave for christmas break for 4 weeks, so I'm having a friend come over twice a week to feed my fish and clean the tanks when necessary. I recently left for 5 days for Thanksgiving break (a different friend fed them daily), and when I returned, my 10 gallon tank was a disaster. My neon tetras turned white and my beta wasn't swimming. My water was tinted brown.

I panicked and bought a 20 gallon to upgrade to since my tank was fully stocked anyway, so hopefully that will help. I may leave my beta and snails in the 10 gallon to reduce the bio loads further. I've been vacuuming the 10 gal and made the transition to the 20 gal on saturday. Everyone's in the 20 gal except the snails.

When I took water samples to get tested, my nitrates/nitrites were normal, but my pH and hardness were both high. Water hardness I can't change, the water here is naturally very hard, and the pH is naturally slightly basic. I don't know what to do to balance the pH out. It was about 7.8. Is there anything I can do except for let the tanks adjust on their own? I'm leaving in 4 days so there's not much I can do after that.

I have 9 neon tetras, 3 Kuhli loaches, a beta, and 3 nerite snails.

 

[rmiller]

As long as it's stable you are fine. Store bought fish are typically farm raised in a pH similar to yours. The only time you should bother with your pH is if you have wild caught fish that truly need to have their original habitat met for them to thrive.

 

[mrvincent]

Did you had your neons for a long time ? Did your friend overfed ? What's the tank temperature ? Overfeeding can cause ammonia spike, that's really dangerous for fish.

When you hire somebody to feed your fish, prepare cups for each days, so your friend won't overdose.

For the neon, on long term they won't appreciate high ph/hardness. It's almost impossible to lower PH when water is hard. Don't put acids in the tank, it will result to drastically lower the PH, stressing (kill) the fish, and the PH will end up at the initial value overtime, because hard water contains a lot of buffers.

You can cut your tap water with RODI water. If you go in the direction of RODI water, don't add it one shot, as it will lower the PH too fast. I already did a 30% WC with RODI water and the PH have so much lowered that my fish were showing big stress signs.


By experience, neons don't like 10 gallons tanks as they need 1m of facade to swim. Now there's happy in my 30g, where there's 91cm of facade.

If you got an ammonia spike, it's very dangerous in your case, as ammonia become toxic ammonium the more the PH is high.

See the chart below:

You should read 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, <10ppm nitrates. That's optimal water for fish.

 

[mrvincent]

Do you know about the cycling process ? Use your 10 gal filter on your 20 gal, it will cycle it instantly.

 

[molliwopp]

A ph of 7.8 is on the alkaline side of things but like has been mentioned is fish will survive in a large ph range if stable and seeing as your water is very hard, i would imagine you kH will be high also which makes it even more difficult for the ph to swing and change. Obviously ideally we'd like to keep fish in as close to their natural habitat as possible. I now refuse to keep fish that aren't perfectly suited to my tap parameters as it has to be benifical in some way but at the same time i wont preach or push this onto others.

Some fish can adjust better than others. In places, natural water parameters can change slighty throughout the year with different seasons and elements. Freshwater fish are very adaptable to water conditions compared to salt water fish and they have to be as their survival depends on it.

 

[SnailorJ]

My tanks are both cycled, planted, and heated. I had an extra filter pad in my 10 gallon for about 4 days so it could collect bacteria and left it there, moving the old filter pad to the 20 gallon along with some gravel. My readings are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10 nitrates. Just the pH and hardness are off. I've had the beta for 2 years, the neons and loaches for about 2 months, and the snails a couple of weeks. The neons are staying in the 20 gallon along with the loaches, as they both need more space than a 10 gallon. My beta and snails will probably stay in the 10 gallon long term, but I might leave them all in the 20 except for the snails while I'm gone to make it easier for my friend.

So basically what I'm getting out of this is that there's nothing I can do? Usually when I test my water, the pH is 7. Twice it's been at 7.8, when I first set up the 10 gallon, and now. Maybe it's just because the one tank is so new and the other one has had significant water changes to correct the problem from thanksgiving, the pH will balance back to 7 once it's been sitting long enough?

 

[SnailorJ]

Oh, and tank temperature is about 79. I have no idea if my friend was overfeeding. I showed her how much to feed, but that doesn't mean she did it correctly. The friend who is watching them this time is much more critter savvy, so I trust her more. I'm going to give her the info for my account here so she can ask questions if she runs into trouble as I will be unreachable for that month.

 

[mrvincent]

It can be your tap water fluctuating ? Here at quebec, my tap has always been 2dKH and 5dGH, and it never changed... (I'm lucky , thanks god for giving me perfect water for fishs)

 

[mrvincent]

When normal people feed fish, they feed fish like they would like them to eat, but in facts, the fish require less food that what we would like to see them eat...

 

[molliwopp]

Have you tested your water straight from the tap? I would by yourself a testing kit and defi itely not rely on the lfs to give me accurate readings.

A jump from 7 to 7.8 is quite a leap. The ph of tap water thats left to age in a bucket will change alittle once settled but mine drops rather than increases and definitely not that drastically.

What decor do you have in the tank? What substrate are you using? Things inside the tank can effect ph and in your case it sounds like it could quite possibly be because of this.

 

[mrvincent]

You can add few drops of dechlorinator in a glass of water, then take PH mesurements.

(Chlorine in tap tend to higher it's PH)

 

[SnailorJ]

I can't afford my own testing kit right now, but I will get one eventually. I can't imagine the tap water pH changing so drastically, but maybe it's possible? I'm not sure what I could do about that either though.

Again, I showed my friend how much to feed last time, but there's no way for me to know how much she actually fed. Since this time my other friend will only be feeding twice a week, I'm not really worried about overfeeding. However, I will show her the correct amount and I trust that this friend will do a good job.

 

[mrvincent]

Yeah, there should not have remaining uneaten food in the tank after your fish stop eating.

Tap PH fluctuation is not so much a problem, it's the hardness.

I bought GH, KH, Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, Phosphates, PH test on ebay from API, cost me around 50 bucks

 

[SnailorJ]

Oh I didn't see the last part of a previous question.

I have live plants in both tanks and part play sand and part river rock gravel in both tanks. There is a piece of wood in my 10 gal and some rocks in both as well. There are 2 ceramic ornaments in the 20 gal right now also to provide hiding places because I'm not able to plant it fully before I leave.

 

[molliwopp]

Well in that case i dont think you have anything that would constitute a ph change on this level. Because the lfs is telling you your parameters its open to speculation to the actual ph as the same color can look different in different lighting conditions to different people and at different times. I would take in 2 samples at the same time, one believed to be 7 and another believed to be 7.8 and see if they give you the same results as before. Having 2 results infront of them at the same time would help with visibly seeing differences in colour as looking at one and then another at different times can lead to under or over compensating.

 

[threnjen]

Amazon.com: API Freshwater Master Test Kit: Pet Supplies

API test kit is only $16 on Amazon right now and has every test needed.

 

[SnailorJ]

That test kit is a great idea. I didn't want to buy it for $30 in the store, but $15 is totally reasonable. I'll order it when I get back! It won't arrive before I leave if I order it now. However, it looks like it doesn't include hardness measures, which may not be ideal for me. I think that separate kit is like $5 though.

 

[Delapool]

That test kit is a great idea. I didn't want to buy it for $30 in the store, but $15 is totally reasonable. I'll order it when I get back! It won't arrive before I leave if I order it now. However, it looks like it doesn't include hardness measures, which may not be ideal for me. I think that separate kit is like $5 though.

Yes, kH and Gh are a separate test each. The master kit I have only does ph, high ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. I tend to use the kH test more but that may be just my water.