December 21, 2012

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1. Tha Mayan calendar is ending.
This point of the article holds truth. The calendar does not actually end. Therefore the world does not actually end in a sense that it is "no more". I agree completely with that point but the Mayan calendar does correlate with great changes in the earths history or climate in some instances or so some scientists believe. Could be coincidence or not. But the theory then holds water if you approach it from this angle of the world not ending but a great earth cycle ending. Look at the changes in recent history that people have discovered. The warming climate(which by the way is happening on mars also so there's another reason not to believe its mans cause), the earths magnetic field in a weakened state (which happens before pole reversals), the suns increase magnetic activity and solar flaring (which can wreck havoc on our power grid and electronics), the earths axis even gets wobbled over thousands of years possibly leading to further climate change(and can be affected by suns magnetics and gravity). But considering these things that could happen it would essentially be an end to the world as we know it now.
I get that the mayans had a cyclical view of time, the controversial part is whether the end of one age and the beginning of another entails some sort of cataclysm. There's lots of things that 'COULD' happen, we could get hit by a giant meteorite, a nearby star could supernova, the CERN guys could create a black hole capable of imploding the earth, or we could wipe out the entire planet with nuclear arms. Just because things could happen doesn't make them any more likely to at this particular date. There are signs for all kinds of things depending on which scientist you talk to. Beginning with a conclusion and then finding evidence to back it is not scientific at all, and history has proven that this leads people down many rabbit holes.

2. And 3. These points I will tackle together. Essentially the sun and our solar system will not either be affected by a galactic beam nor will the solar system be at the center of the galaxy. But the alignment of the sun from EARTHS POV will be viewed at the center of an opening between parts of the milky way galaxy. Now do I believe this will have any effect on the earth? No because I'm sure it's happened before and I'm sure other planets have already seen the sun this way from their POV. But the fact that the article failed to mention this is what the main theory is, irks me so I point it out and let you decide.
I know what you are talking about, and it's part of why I find this and other ancient civilizations fascinating, they had an understanding of astronomy that in many cases rivals our own modern understanding. And I believe that they knew more about it than we do which is why we have so many puzzles when we start digging up these cultures.

The article is just making counterarguments against some of the most popular theories relating to the 2012 event, so I don't expect it to be all inclusive.

4. The planetary alignment theory.
This is also in part something I agree with. The effects on earth if all the planets were aligned is negligible and really since its not going to happen irrelevant.
That's the point they were making, so you agree.

But it also talks about the magnetics of everything. The fact that the earths pole do flip flop (which is to say the your compass would point to our current south if this happened, not the earth flipping over) and the earths axis does wobble and these can all be affected by magnetics of the sun is a viable theory.
I understand that, but where is the evidence?

For instance think of the earths magnetic field as a shield, when the earths shield is strong it deflects much more solar energy. But with the shield in a period of decreased strength (which is something that has occurred frequently throughout earths history, just as periods of increased strength) and the suns magnetic field or shield being increased in strength as well as increase solar flare activity (which has been shown to knock out the power grid occasionally in parts of the world) the fact that earths magnetics could be knocked or flipped over is a real possibility.
Yes it's a possibility, but as I've already mentioned, how great of a possibility is it? Anything is possible.

Besides the fact that were due for a pole flip soon anyways.
define soon. Soon in cosmic time is what? hundreds of thousands..millions of years? We are somewhat overdue for a large earthquake/volcano event also, and possibly another large meteor strike.

The idea that the sun couldn't have an effect on the earth is like saying that a human couldn't blow over an ant, ridiculous.
I don't know who has that idea, the sun is the source of life on the planet and it affects it in every way. On a side note I saw a program on 'Nemesis, the sun's evil twin', it's pretty interesting.

5 this point is just funny. Lol
Funny, but it's true that there is quite a following that believes in the planet X idea. Coast to coast AM has someone speaking on it at least once a week it seems like. Not that it gives it any validity, but there are many that honestly believe in it.


Overall I do agree that there could be some clarification made to give the complete story (as we know it) of the mayan calendar stuff, but I think that the counter-arguments that this particular site made are not invalidated because they don't include the entire story.
 
jetajockey said:
I get that the mayans had a cyclical view of time, the controversial part is whether the end of one age and the beginning of another entails some sort of cataclysm. There's lots of things that 'COULD' happen, we could get hit by a giant meteorite, a nearby star could supernova, the CERN guys could create a black hole capable of imploding the earth, or we could wipe out the entire planet with nuclear arms. Just because things could happen doesn't make them any more likely to at this particular date. There are signs for all kinds of things depending on which scientist you talk to. Beginning with a conclusion and then finding evidence to back it is not scientific at all, and history has proven that this leads people down many rabbit holes.
.

The Mayans never really said that stuff would happen on said date. They just said the specific period of time would end, this could mean a time of great change could begin or not but things take a long time for humans to see so the idea that it will happen exactly on the specific date is rare I agree. I am 100% convinced that nothing will happen but I am arguing the point of these other theories that I believe most likely to occur because of the evidence to back them up. Theories are theories. Only a single possibility in the world of possibilities. And I was not beginning with a conclusion and then finding evidence to back it up the evidence is there. And if history has proven anything it is that science DOES begin with a conclusion and try to find evidence to back it up. Look at the big bang theory, black holes, Higgs bosun particle, life on other planets etc. all of these things are conclusions to problems where scientists are trying to find the evidence to prove the theory. Black hole is the only thing on that list they've actually substantiated.
 
Any one have any tips on how to keep my fish alive during this "end of the world"? Lots of water changes perhaps and I assume the power will go out... Right? ;) lol jk.
 
I'd recommend a water globe bunker with food to last for months at a time and a solar powered aeration device lol
 
I always joke that in an apocalypse situation, I would have no choice but to eat my fish. But it better not happen for awhile, because they are still pretty small ;)
My German shepherd on the other hand... yummmm. Lol!
 
christine2012 said:
I always joke that in an apocalypse situation, I would have no choice but to eat my fish. But it better not happen for awhile, because they are still pretty small ;)
My German shepherd on the other hand... yummmm. Lol!

Hahahahhaha!!
 
The Mayans never really said that stuff would happen on said date. They just said the specific period of time would end, this could mean a time of great change could begin or not but things take a long time for humans to see so the idea that it will happen exactly on the specific date is rare I agree. I am 100% convinced that nothing will happen but I am arguing the point of these other theories that I believe most likely to occur because of the evidence to back them up. Theories are theories. Only a single possibility in the world of possibilities. And I was not beginning with a conclusion and then finding evidence to back it up the evidence is there. And if history has proven anything it is that science DOES begin with a conclusion and try to find evidence to back it up. Look at the big bang theory, black holes, Higgs bosun particle, life on other planets etc. all of these things are conclusions to problems where scientists are trying to find the evidence to prove the theory. Black hole is the only thing on that list they've actually substantiated.

Scientific method? The word 'theory' gets thrown around lightly now but I recall a time when there was a process involved. Much 'theory' talk is nothing more than untested/untestable hypothesis.
 
Yes but science today is still doing exactly what you said science isn't supposed to do. My "theory" uses the evidence unlike the real "scientists" and therefor falls into your restrictions of the word if that helps you any lol. BUT like I said I don't believe in this! I just think its the most likely to occur of any science related end of world scenarios.
 
Theres a difference between scientific deduction and semi-educated speculation. I think nuclear war is the most plausible, but that's just me.
 
MrPillow said:
Theres a difference between scientific deduction and semi-educated speculation. I think nuclear war is the most plausible, but that's just me.

Not really. Most of the greatest minds were semi-educated speculators not just a few, most. Not saying that I personally am but im pointing out a hole there. And to say that saying the big bang theory and Higgs bosun particle are scientific deductions is ridiculous in my opinion. They were complete guesswork before they figured out a way to test the ideas. It's the same as saying unicorns exists but we don't know how, where, why, or when. "Scientists" were 100% sure the world was flat at one time, this is important to remember.
 
jkdubs2 said:
"Scientists" were 100% sure the world was flat at one time, this is important to remember.

Earth was never flat at one point. All the continents were together and called Pangaea.
 
The Mayan calender predictions do not meet the criteria to form a scientific theory. It is not falsifiable through experimentation, only random chance. The other theories listed (and the Higgs Boson is still up for great debate) have prevailed through all attempts to experimentally prove them false or provide substantial evidence otherwise. Science can never prove anything to be true - it can only prove that it is the most likely of all testable possibilities pertaining from a certain set of conditions. We can debate unicorns and Mayan fortune telling all day, but none of it will be scientific.
 
Ibrahim said:
Earth was never flat at one point. All the continents were together and called Pangaea.

Oh my goodness. I know this. But the people of earth believed that the world was flat back in Christopher Columbus' time(15th century) and thought he'd sail off the end of the earth instead he later found that the world was not flat therefore proving science wrong. What I was trying to say was that science makes mistakes all the time.
 
That is a myth. The idea of the spherical earth was adopted in Greece and began proliferating through europe in roughly the 3rd century BC. It is a great urban legend that the people of Columbus' time thought the earth was flat and he would sail off it. Look up the "Myth of the Flat Earth".



EDIT: But yes, science is wrong all the time. That is the core tenant of truth in science. If you prove something to be true, it must remain absolutely true for all time and to make such a claim is impossible. We can only eliminate less plausible solutions, until new evidence arises to bring about new ones.
 
MrPillow said:
The Mayan calender predictions do not meet the criteria to form a scientific theory. It is not falsifiable through experimentation, only random chance. The other theories listed (and the Higgs Boson is still up for great debate) have prevailed through all attempts to experimentally prove them false or provide substantial evidence otherwise. Science can never prove anything to be true - it can only prove that it is the most likely of all testable possibilities pertaining from a certain set of conditions. We can debate unicorns and Mayan fortune telling all day, but none of it will be scientific.

Science can prove things to be true. Science proved that the earth rotated around the sun, science proved that atoms were real, and that people got sick through viruses and bacteria not voodoo. These are all proven to be true. Science is all speculation otherwise there would be no need for it. Science wouldn't exist if someone never asked the all important questions of "how and why"
 
That post alone is sufficient evidence to falsify my theory that you are a scientist. At least for now, further evidence may arise later.

I have no more interest in this debate, I see it is going nowhere.
 
MrPillow said:
That is a myth. The idea of the spherical earth was adopted in Greece and began proliferating through europe in roughly the 3rd century BC. It is a great urban legend that the people of Columbus' time thought the earth was flat and he would sail off it. Look up the "Myth of the Flat Earth".

EDIT: But yes, science is wrong all the time. That is the core tenant of truth in science. If you prove something to be true, it must remain absolutely true for all time and to make such a claim is impossible. We can only eliminate less plausible solutions, until new evidence arises to bring about new ones.

Still even if it wasn't true in Columbus' time it was true at some point and people still believed it. And there were many people who did believe it was flat still in Columbus time even if it was spread throughout Europe. Some uneducated primitive people today still think the earth is flat. And in the dark ages much of the ancient knowledge was lost so the more primitive ways of thinking took over again and it wasn't until the renaissance 14th-17th centuries that the info was being discovered again and we all know that if u were someone to think out of the box in certain areas of europe (especially spain where Columbus was chartered) then you were persecuted viciously so people believed what they were told. science is not limited to the restrictions placed on it by mainstream thinkers either otherwise it would never progress.
 
MrPillow said:
That post alone is sufficient evidence to falsify my theory that you are a scientist. At least for now, further evidence may arise later.

I have no more interest in this debate, I see it is going nowhere.

Once again I'll say that science is not limited by the restrictions people place on it at the time nor is the title of scientist. Otherwise we would never progress

Edit: I have never claimed to be a scientist
 
Science can prove things to be true. Science proved that the earth rotated around the sun, science proved that atoms were real, and that people got sick through viruses and bacteria not voodoo. These are all proven to be true. Science is all speculation otherwise there would be no need for it. Science wouldn't exist if someone never asked the all important questions of "how and why"

I believe that science doesn't 'prove' anything. Here's a good article on that, so I won't keep blabbering on it. http://www.ted.com/conversations/7200/do_scientists_act_by_faith.html
Science Can’t Prove Anything | Proslogion

Asking why the sun sets and rises every day and then finding data to help come up with a hypothesis is a lot different than assuming that the sun revolves around the earth and then looking for data to support that idea.


This is all off of the main point, though. The mayan calendar was made ambiguous enough to where we really have no idea what is going to happen, if anything. Add on the inquisition destroying much of the historical documentation and you have a recipe for wild speculation ranging from the moderately plausible to the completely insane.

Without going off the tracks again on what is science and whatever, the basic question being posed is whether or not anyone has any actual evidence of what the mayan prophecy entails as opposed to the 'spaghetti at the wall' approach that is the beloved crutch of conspiracy theorists.
 
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