Rio Nanay & short ventrals

These fish were sold as European tank bred Rio Nanay. I am having difficulty finding domestic bred wild varieties. They look different from other Rio Nanays I have seen online. Could they possibly be some other variety? Also, the ventrals appear to be on the short side. These fish are young. Will the ventral lengthen as they mature?

Jacky12 said:

These fish were sold as European tank bred Rio Nanay. I am having difficulty finding domestic bred wild varieties. They look different from other Rio Nanays I have seen online. Could they possibly be some other variety? Also, the ventrals appear to be on the short side. These fish are young. Will the ventral lengthen as they mature?

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Angels can have geographical color pattern differences so just because they are from Rio Nanay does not mean they are from the same location the fish you are looking at online came from.
As for the ventrals, they should grow as the fish get larger but since these are tank raised fish, they may or may not grow. Physical attributes of tank raised fish all depend on how the fish were raised. Fish raised in larger uncrowded tanks usually have longer fins. In smaller or crowded tanks, they sometimes get clipped by another fish and don't grow back.

Thank you. So it’s more likely that fish with short ventrals were nipped by other fish than that this is a genetic condition? When these fish mature & color up more, could they more easily be identified as Rio Nanay? Or are you saying Rio Nanay may come in many variations. I am pretty sure this is true of Manacapuru.

I wanted them because I greatly admired photos of adults posted by some guy in the UK. The only people I know of that are getting wilds are breeders, and I don’t know their source. They are secretive. These came from an importer who has both a website and sells on Aquabid.

Jacky12 said:

Thank you. So it’s more likely that fish with short ventrals were nipped by other fish than that this is a genetic condition? When these fish mature & color up more, could they more easily be identified as Rio Nanay? Or are you saying Rio Nanay may come in many variations. I am pretty sure this is true of Manacapuru.

I wanted them because I greatly admired photos of adults posted by some guy in the UK. The only people I know of that are getting wilds are breeders, and I don’t know their source. They are secretive. These came from an importer who has both a website and sells on Aquabid.

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I'm saying that Rio Nanay may come in a number of variations so you are not always going to get ones that look alike just because they come from the same river. The Rio Nanay is 196 miles long so highly possible/ probable to have multiple geographic coloration variations. If you want to know what your fish are going to look like, you need to ask your breeder for a picture of THEIR breeder(s) because that is what your fish are most likely going to look like.

Without knowing how your fish were raised, it's just as likely that the short fins were nipped as it is a genetic trait.

On a side note, it's been reported that due to some heavy flooding in S. America years ago, holding stations were flooded and Angelfish escaped so you then had fish not endemic to that area now living in the new areas and can interbreed with the locals meaning that the whole wild population of Angels may now be "polluted " by non native genes so the idea of getting " pure" wild Angels may no longer be possible ( or not possible in certain areas.) So you may want to only get fish when you see the parents first vs their supposed location.

What fascinating info. I think it would be near impossible to get an importer who has pics of the parents of fish they import. It is beginning to look like these are certainty Peruvian, but not the Rio Nanay they were advertised as. I think I had best avoid European imports. This is the second time I paid hefty prices for fish that were not as depicted.
It’s also not easy to find excellent P.scalare breeders either in the US.

Jacky12 said:

What fascinating info. I think it would be near impossible to get an importer who has pics of the parents of fish they import. It is beginning to look like these are certainty Peruvian, but not the Rio Nanay they were advertised as. I think I had best avoid European imports. This is the second time I paid hefty prices for fish that were not as depicted.
It’s also not easy to find excellent P.scalare breeders either in the US.

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I thought you said you got some from an importer / breeder? Anyway, no, you probably wouldn't get pics of the breeders from another country but like I said, after the flooding issue, there is nothing to say any wild fish is " pure" anymore either. You would need to find a breeder whose fish were captured before the flooding to know if you were getting any pure strains. If I remember correctly, this was discussed in the Amazonas magazine. Check them out for the date/ year(s) of the flooding.

Two were tank bred in the Czech Republic & two wc
I will definitely look into this flooding thing. First I’ve heard of it.

I found this video that might help you distinguish your fish.

I saw that video today! I recently saw his video on Manacapuru. He’s in the UK, but has an accent I can’t recognize. Do you? This video led me to conclude I don’t have the fish sold by the importer as Rio Nanay. I base this primarily upon the absence of the black spot between two stripes. The presenter says this is apparent at a very early age. I think I have four random Peruvians. A US breeder posted photos of his large new group of Rio Nanay. He never reveals his sources. They were as described in the video. He won’t sell me a few either, says he is cross breeding them into other lines.

Thanks for your efforts in helping me on this & other issues. Much appreciated.

Jacky12 said:

I saw that video today! I recently saw his video on Manacapuru. He’s in the UK, but has an accent I can’t recognize. Do you? This video led me to conclude I don’t have the fish sold by the importer as Rio Nanay. I base this primarily upon the absence of the black spot between two stripes. The presenter says this is apparent at a very early age. I think I have four random Peruvians. A US breeder posted photos of his large new group of Rio Nanay. He never reveals his sources. They were as described in the video. He won’t sell me a few either, says he is cross breeding them into other lines.

Thanks for your efforts in helping me on this & other issues. Much appreciated.

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This is part of the problem IMO about the wild caught fish and today's breeders. WHY are they cross breeding them????? If they want to use wild blood to straighten out bad genetics of their domestic lines, they just need to get regular old wild scalare and not any of the " newly found" varieties. If you want to attract real Angelfish admirers, keep most of the stock pure and work some new blood into their other lines. This is a fish that can easily be line bred like Guppies with the only difference being that it will take longer than Guppies. Much better IMO than cross breeding them to domestics to make new colors.

I could not agree with you more.