Honey Gourami Fungal Illness?

[Lila]

Hi, I just did a water change on my community 10g tank (6 neon tetra, 1 honey gourami). Gourami wasn't eating this morning, when I did the water change I noticed a white fuzz coming out of his left gill. Tetras seem fine. It doesn't look like individual white spots anywhere, just that one area. He has two large either wounds or inflamed gills as well, constantly at the top for air, or swimming awkwardly. Loss of color as well. I think it's something fungal. I have Kanaplex and Jungle Clear but I haven't used anything yet besides a dose of Aquarium Salt. If I don't get any responses soon I will probably start the tank on Kanaplex. I don't have a separate quarantine tank so I hope it's alright if I dose the entire tank, I removed any carbon filters and I do have live plants but that's obviously not my biggest worry. The water change I did today was about 50-60%. Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate all read 0, but I didn't measure it before the change to see if anything was abnormal unfortunately.

I will have to say I haven't been frequently doing water changes so it may have been something w ammonia but now that I've learned my lesson on doing water changes more often I just want to know what I can do now to help the gourami. I have melafix as well but I heard that's not the best for labyrinth breathers so I won't dose it unless I get the okay.

here;s a pic of him

 

[Andy Sager]

Hi, I just did a water change on my community 10g tank (6 neon tetra, 1 honey gourami). Gourami wasn't eating this morning, when I did the water change I noticed a white fuzz coming out of his left gill. Tetras seem fine. It doesn't look like individual white spots anywhere, just that one area. He has two large either wounds or inflamed gills as well, constantly at the top for air, or swimming awkwardly. Loss of color as well. I think it's something fungal. I have Kanaplex and Jungle Clear but I haven't used anything yet besides a dose of Aquarium Salt. If I don't get any responses soon I will probably start the tank on Kanaplex. I don't have a separate quarantine tank so I hope it's alright if I dose the entire tank, I removed any carbon filters and I do have live plants but that's obviously not my biggest worry. The water change I did today was about 50-60%. Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate all read 0, but I didn't measure it before the change to see if anything was abnormal unfortunately.

I will have to say I haven't been frequently doing water changes so it may have been something w ammonia but now that I've learned my lesson on doing water changes more often I just want to know what I can do now to help the gourami. I have melafix as well but I heard that's not the best for labyrinth breathers so I won't dose it unless I get the okay.

here;s a pic of himView attachment 390835

Read through this to determine if it's the virus or an infected wound: Iridovirus Dwarf Gourami Disease - Causes and Cures - hygger

 

[Lila]

I feel like it is a virus or something fungal like Columnaris because there wasn't really any way for him to injure himself as bad as it looks and it's mainly around the gills alongside a fluffy white growth that is hard to see in the photo. The fluffy part is also only on the left side whereas the irritation looks the same on both sides. You can only see the fluffy (what I'm assuming is fungus) from a birdseye view.

 

[Lila]

he hasn't been using his pectoral fins either and is easily knocked off of balance when he bumps into things

 

[Andy Sager]

he hasn't been using his pectoral fins either and is easily knocked off of balance when he bumps into things

If it's on both sides, it most likely the virus. I would euthanize if you can't move and treat in a separate hospital tank. There is no cure for the virus so medicating is only just to make sure. Medicating the main tank jeopardizes the other fish as well as your bacteria bed so you are better off not arbitrarily treating in the main tank.
Also, just for the record, Columnaris is a bacterial disease not fungal so fungal meds will not work on it. If you are getting a fuzz on the wound areas and these are not caused by injury, I would check your water parameters as stress is the main cause of the virus to activate.

Hope this helps.

 

[Lila]

If I did set up a quarantine tank, what would be the treatment process? It's not really the tank that I don't have but any new medication would be hard for me to get in time. So would it be too long to wait for new medicine to come if the kanaplex isn't a cure?

 

[Lila]

okay, I'm back to ground zero. just took another look at him since he came into the light, what I thought was bacterial fuzz looks like peeled-back scales with red wounds. I literally have no idea what this is. I can't get a good look at him from above to see if there is any fuzz but I think they're wounds. Either way, how could he even get injured this badly and on both sides if it wasn't a virus?he looks a lot less colorful in person.

I just feel terrible looking at him, he's very stiff and kind of has trouble not bouncing to the top (it's not extreme but it's def abnormal). But I also don't want to give up on him if it's something curable.

 

[Lila]

I have work tomorrow so I can't do anything now or until late tomorrow, so I'll wait it out and figure out what to do tomorrow unfortunately. But if you could give any feedback of what to treat it with or what it even Is I would really appreciate it.

 

[Andy Sager]

I have work tomorrow so I can't do anything now or until late tomorrow, so I'll wait it out and figure out what to do tomorrow unfortunately. But if you could give any feedback of what to treat it with or what it even Is I would really appreciate it.

These new pics really point to the iridovirus ( a.k.a. Dwarf Gourami Disease). There is no cure for this. Medicating him is just a waste of money sadly. Euthanizing him now is the best thing to protect your other fish because if they pick at the wounds, they will also get infected or be a carrier of the virus.
If you can't euthanize him tonight, take him out of the tank and place in a bag or plastic cup or something you can either throw away or sterilize afterwards. After that, you should also sterilize whatever net(s) you use to catch the fish. That's the best thing to do.

 

[Lila]

I thought honey gouramis weren't suseptable to DGIV? im so confused

In any case, if I do euthanize him tomorrow, what would be the process if I wanted to add a different honey gourami back into the tank? Would it be an issue of where I get the fish from or would I need to deep clean the tank to prevent it from taking another fish?

 

[Aiken Drum]

Honey gourami are less likely have to dwarf gourami disease, but can still get it. I've regularly seen figures of 1 in 3 dwarf gourami sold in petstores worldwide carry the disease, and I don't believe honey gourami are at that level, but if honey gourami are being kept in aquariums that have ever had an infected dwarf gourami in it, then the honey gourami will likely get infected.

Once the disease is in an aquarium, it stays there until the aquarium is thoroughly disinfected. It's not like ich where the disease needs a suitable host or it dies out given time. A while back we looked at a batch of dwarf gourami in my local store and suspected dwarf gourami disease, and they took the whole batch off sale. But I have no idea if they broke down the aquarium and disinfected it or not. If not, any future gourami sold from that tank could be infected. It's even speculated non gourami species can carry the disease (without showing infectious signs) so it's only going to get more prevailent unless someone finds an effective treatment, and the hobby from breeders, retailers to hobbyists get a lot more serious about infection control.

 

[Andy Sager]

I thought honey gouramis weren't suseptable to DGIV? im so confused

In any case, if I do euthanize him tomorrow, what would be the process if I wanted to add a different honey gourami back into the tank? Would it be an issue of where I get the fish from or would I need to deep clean the tank to prevent it from taking another fish?

Actually, it's my understanding that DGIV was first found in Dwarf Gouramis but can effect any Anabantid specie ( i.e Gouramis , Paradise fish, Bettas, etc.) and even infect species outside of anabantids, currently 100 species. It's also my understanding that it's spread through contact unlike things like parasites which are motile. The issue is, as Aiken explained, is that because it's a virus, developed during breeding on a farm, the virus can be inside any fish in a latent or suppressed stage. Now, because it's been around for a while and breeding practices are at best questionable, any dwarf gourami color variant or smaller gourami specie routinely bred on farms is a potential or probable carrier. That means that you take your chances when you buy any of these fish because there is no cure once the virus activates. It activates when the fish is put under stress. That doesn't mean that YOU stressed the fish either. It could happen at the supplier, or where you got the fish from or just in transport. So with all that said, just as a precaution, I would not add any anabantid into a tank that had the virus until after it has been bleach sterilized. Deep cleaning alone isn't enough IMO.

 

[Lila]

hi again. I moved him to a smaller 5g hospital tank just for the heck of it and also to get a closer look. I will probably euthanize later today with your suggestions. I still have the neons in the 10g and they should be fine I'm assuming (lmk if otherwise).

here's a clearer photo of the like injuries, this was taken in a cup before I transferred him but my only question is that i've only seen dgiv as like a swelling, not a deterioration of anything which is why i'm a little confused. obviously i'm not as experienced so let me know if this still would be a symptom. thank you both for all of the help anyways and I definitely will be doing more research about what safer breeds are out there when purchasing.

 

[Andy Sager]

hi again. I moved him to a smaller 5g hospital tank just for the heck of it and also to get a closer look. I will probably euthanize later today with your suggestions. I still have the neons in the 10g and they should be fine I'm assuming (lmk if otherwise).

here's a clearer photo of the like injuries, this was taken in a cup before I transferred him but my only question is that i've only seen dgiv as like a swelling, not a deterioration of anything which is why i'm a little confused. obviously i'm not as experienced so let me know if this still would be a symptom. thank you both for all of the help anyways and I definitely will be doing more research about what safer breeds are out there when purchasing. View attachment 390839

While I'm not fan of Wikipedia, there are some good pics on this page so you can see the advanced stages. Iridovirus dwarf gourami disease - Wikipedia

 

[Lila]

Just a quick update:

Before I called it quits I decided to treat him w/ the Kanaplex and jungle clear as if it were Columnaris, because honestly, I felt that it couldn't hurt. It's day 4 of that, and I am glad I tried the treatment: he is back to eating again and is more active; he seems back to himself and the injuries on his sides are beginning to close up. My only worry is when he does fully recover from whatever this was, how do I go about releasing him back into his original tank? Should I be worried that whatever he was infected by originally would still be in the tank, even if the neon tetras are showing no symptoms?

 

[Andy Sager]

Yes you should be concerned about that. The virus does not leave the fish even after it " activates". Unfortunately with Gouramis, because they have this virus, it's very difficult to definitely diagnose their situation. They have become a better safe than sorry fish.
As for your situation, I compare it to getting shot. You can heal the wound to the skin but then develop blood poisoning from the bullet so you didn't really gain anything. Even at a temperature of 110 degrees Fahrenheit, the virus can remain infectious for up to 6 weeks without a host. It's a very aggressive virus.

Bottom line, if the fish does fully recover long term, it would be best not to put it back into the main tank which caused the the virus to "activate" in the first place. If this turns out not to be the virus but a bacterial infection, again, whatever was in the tank that caused this advanced a wound to get infected is still, I assume, there so I wouldn't put this fish back into that tank. So the choice is yours whether to continue or not. ( This is the sad reality of fish keeping or animal husbandry on the whole today. ) We can discuss more options when/ if the fish is fully healed.