Tank maintenance mistakes

[pauldadams1984]

Hey all.
It's been quite some time since being on here. So I am gonna start from scratch and explain what's happened. (Long post full of needless info)

Last year I decided to make life simple and cut my stock in half, give me fish away and run with a criminally under stocked tank. Very much due to a heavy work schedule, which has changed as I am back working from home for the foreseeable.

So I gave all my fish away and lowered my heater to 23 degrees (I posted before about going cold/temperate, but settled on just lowering the heat) I bought 8 turquoise rainbows. 2 of which got injured in transit (perils of buying fish online), so it left me with only 6. I also bought a load of different types wood and plants to have a natural feel and I read it releases something that I really can't remember the name of into the water that tints the water and is healthy for the fish..... Which it had.... Ahhh tannins lol.

The tank also houses some shrimps and snails.

When changing fish, I swapped them over almost instantly.

Anyway, apart from finding a random fry and allowing it to grow into an adult. It's been plain sailing. Just a weekly Syphon and water change (300 litre tank and I change 10%). Then a monthly big sort out, including removal of about £30-50 worth of floating plants that just want to take over the world it seems, and then a rinse of the canister filter. In which I change 15-20%. I used to test the water before each water change, but after 6months of no changes barring small fluctuations in nitrates, I now only test the water before doing the canister. Due to having very little clean up crew or bottom fish at all, I am often syphoning the bottom, especially for particles of wood that's degrading in the water.

The rainbows have been doing great. They are almost fully grown but not quite. Apparently they take ages to grow. They recently even started coming out with a yellowish stripe underneath the deep blue stripe (I read it's an indicator of being ready to mate). So they must've been happy.

So with a change of work, I am now planning on introducing more fish as I can take care more. I found a home for the random pearl danio fry due to it being too boisterous towards the rainbows now it's an adult, (it was a baby and grew to boss the rainbows - shows how slow turquoise rainbows are to grow)

I then decided to rearrange my tank, giving more sandy space at the front for the corries I plan on buying.

I also decided to chop up the Anubias I've had growing for 4 years on an old inert rock I had and separate it around the tank onto the wood I bought last year.

SO HERES THE ISSUE
upon taking the old rock out with some of the wood, it released a shed load of debris (wood particles and presuming fish poo) into the water column. Stuff that's been sat accumulating in a hard to Syphon spot for ages. Meaning my maintenance hasn't been thorough enough I guess.

With the fish in there swimming in soup, I panicked and got my trusty/not so trusty Syphon out. Opened my window and started getting rid of it.

Before I knew it, I have got rid of 50% of the water without testing it.

I have removed the decaying wood, and any wood of the same type. Keeping still a fair amount of the higher quality wood.

So after removing 50% I figured it's best I don't fill the tank up completely.
So I took it up to 75%

Then yesterday swapped 25% after syphoning more up that had finally settled after being released.

Now I am thinking that I probably should have just allowed it to settle and got it out with only a small amount of water removed. In an ideal world I should have gave the fish a temporary home before undertaking such changes.

The fish lost their yellow stripe as previously mentioned and the biggest one lost a fair bit of it's normal colour. I kept an eye and they seem ok, they were fine at feeding time and they're not being shy. Hopefully I haven't caused any long term damage.

Today I was going to start testing and top the water up.

QUESTIONS
Obviously I have made a few mistakes here I feel with panicking and probably should have always had a better clean up crew too, but what would you have done differently and what would you do now?

Depending on testing results, how long would you wait before buying the corries I planned to get?

Also, would you recommend a pair of plecs rather than 6 corries due to the wood.

My ph is 7.6-8 from tap but has been 7.4 in the tank for ages. So I'll know more later about how it's been effected with the big change. (I am even considering not topping up today if there's been a big swing)

Thanks for reading and any advice you can give is appreciated. I will update later.

 

[Aiken Drum]

I would increase the number of fish/ bioload by no more than 30% a week. Your cycle will have established to consume the waste of your small amount of fish was producing and will need to catch up when you increase it again. So, you want to gradually increase bioload over an extended period of time so that your cycle doesnt need to catch up too much in one go.

I dont see corys and plecos as an either/ or choice. They have different diets and different roles in an aquarium. They wont be be competing in any way.

Unless your tap water and aquarium water are wildly different, there shouldnt be a problem doing 50% or even 75% water changes. I did 2 x 75% water changes on Friday in one of my aquariums. Big water changes are a good idea after significant disruptions to an aquariums.

Water changes where you are only removing water and not refilling are pointless. The concentration of anything in the water isnt reduced until you refill the aquarium with clean water. If you are worried about the effects on the aquarium from refilling, then not doing a water change at all would be better than what you are doing. Do a series of smaller, daily, water changes if you are that concerned.

 

[pauldadams1984]

Yeah the reason for setting the choice for either plec or corries is due to the bio load. I don't want to add too much and upset the bio load, so wondering what would be the preferred choice between them in my situation at this time (probably gonna wait a good week or 2 anyway due to this episode)

I have no algae issues, just wood debris and hidden poop issues, so the substrate needs a more reliable cleaner than my syphon. I've heard plecs eat decaying wood , which is half the debris. Although the corries do a better job for the substrate.

The PH is different from tap to tank. By about 0.4-0.6 (haven't tested the tap for a good year though), presuming due to wood and the bit of tannins I had leeching

So I am presuming it's probably increased 0.1-2 after removing 50% then adding 25% and then swapping another 25%.

If I did 50%, filled back up and then did another 25 swap, it would be changed by 0.2-3 (instead of 0.1-2). Being a sharper change and stressing the fish out more.

The only reason for the 50% water change was because I was getting rid of the debris that was unearthed. It was all a panic but that's how I processed it in my brain afterwards. "Best not do a huge change incase I upset the PH".

Obviously I could have let it all settle and then start syphoning out properly, although when you panic, you do silly things.

Either way it's done now, but for future reference though, I'd like do know, for a 0.4-6 swing in PH, was I right in adding the water back in stages or was I being over cautious. If I was being over cautious, what would be the point where the swing would be too high and you'd have to do it in stages.

Hopefully I've learnt my lesson and from now on, any changes will be made with the fish in a temporary home.

I have just got back from walking the dog so gonna do the testing now

Thanks again

 

[pauldadams1984]

So my tap pH is much higher than I remembered
Tank water is now 7.6-8 after the big change
Tap is 8.4ish

 

[Aiken Drum]

pH swings are fine. Fish naturally move between different pH levels all the time. People who inject CO2 for plants cause much bigger pH fluctuations on a daily basid than you have seen. The issue is fluctuations in disolved minerals that manifest in pH swings. pH swings caused by changes in disolved CO2 wont lead to the same problems.

So to know if your pH swings will cause a problem, you actually need to look at the general and carbonate hardness not just the pH. But i dont think the pH swing you are quoting is going to be an issue. And as i said, if its a concern then do more frequent but smaller water changes. 2 x 30% water changes is going to be about the same as 1 x 50% water change.

 

[Andy Sager]

Aiken pretty much echoed what I would have said so let me address the loss of color on the Rainbows. Breeding fish tend to like certain water conditions when they want to spawn. Disruptions or changes from that water quality can cause them to get out of" the mood" so in the future, I suggest when your fish do show signs of wanting to spawn, get a full panel of test results so that you know what it is that spurred them on to wanting to spawn so that should want to deliberately have them spawning, you can duplicate those desired water parameters.

Regarding your pH difference between tap and tank, the wood most likely was the cause of the differences. Woods pull out some of the carbonate hardness minerals which allows the acids of the " normal" ammonia and nitrates in the water to lower the pH.

As for mistakes, the only real mistake you made was panicking. Panic causes people to make mistakes. Just because you couldn't see all that debris that got stirred up when you removed the rock and wood does not mean that any effects that debris was doing to the water wasn't happening so there was no need to panic. You would have been better off just allowing the debris to settle then siphon it all out under more controlled conditions. I like to use a rigid piece of tubing on the ends of my siphon hoses so that I can point it to particular areas with less hose wandering or pulling water from areas you didn't want to clean.

Large volume water changes vs smaller water changes: There will always be a debate on which is better and the answer will always be " It depends". It depends on how far apart the water parameters are and the fish you have. One of the up sides of large volume water changes is that there is a flood of new clean water coming in as well as minerals and trace elements which are all beneficial to the fish. The down side of doing them comes when there is a drastic difference in the water parameters between the tank water and source water. The further apart they are, the more stress it causes on the fish and they may not adjust to the change which can lead to a host of other problems. So when you have strong fish and the only main difference in water parameters is the amount of nitrate in the waters, large volume water changes shouldn't be an issue. If you have more fragile fish, and your water parameters are further apart, smaller daily water changes tend to be better than large volume changes. You mentioned you had shrimp. Most shrimp species do not do well with drastic changes to their water so smaller daily water changes would be better IMO.

Hope this helps.

 

[Andy Sager]

Yeah the reason for setting the choice for either plec or corries is due to the bio load. I don't want to add too much and upset the bio load, so wondering what would be the preferred choice between them in my situation at this time (probably gonna wait a good week or 2 anyway due to this episode)

I have no algae issues, just wood debris and hidden poop issues, so the substrate needs a more reliable cleaner than my syphon. I've heard plecs eat decaying wood , which is half the debris. Although the corries do a better job for the substrate.

Just an FYI: Not all Plecos need wood in their diets so if you have a low amount of algae in the tank, you want to be very careful of what species of plecos you get so that you don't starve the wrong specie.
Fish poo will release it's ammonia then just becomes unsightly and has no real effect on the water parameters anymore. That you had pockets of it just means you need better water circulation around the bottom of your aquarium. Not much actually "eats" the poo so you want to just filter it out.

 

[Aiken Drum]

So my tap pH is much higher than I remembered
Tank water is now 7.6-8 after the big change
Tap is 8.4ish
View attachment 390207

You need to let tap water sit in an open container for 12 to 24 hours before testing for pH to give disolved CO2 time to equalise with atmospheric CO2.

 

[pauldadams1984]

Thanks for the replies guys. It's much appreciated and yes, panicking is the biggest mistake of all.

I have done the testing I have at hand (API)
Ph 7.6-8
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0-5

Not too happy with seeing nitrates so low but there's been a big water change, so I knew it'll be low. It's normally about 10-20 as it's quite heavily planted

I'll test daily just incase there been a further issue somehow and incase there's any spikes. I'll hold off getting more stock until I am happy it's safe to start adding.

Enjoy the rest of you weekends

 

[pauldadams1984]

You need to let tap water sit in an open container for 12 to 24 hours before testing for pH to give disolved CO2 time to equalise with atmospheric CO2.

Ah ok. I'll do that overnight. Thanks

 

[pauldadams1984]

Ah ok. Yeah I am leaning towards Corrie's tbh. My water circulation isn't terribly high due to floating plants not liking it and also I read turquoise rainbows don't like a high flow. This has obviously resulted in the dead spots with debris.

I think plecs like a high flow too, so the more I think about it. I think corries are the way.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Many of the natural processes that go on in an aquarium will cause pH to go up or down. Generally these processes tend to acidify the water, so its usual for water in the aquarium to be lower than the water from your tap. Most of the time its not to a degree that will cause problems with water changes.

Fish respiration takes up oxygen and releases CO2, which disolves in water forming carbonic acid that lowers pH.

During the day, plant respiration takes up CO2, and releases O2, raising pH. But at night plant respiration works in reverse and they consume O2 and expire CO2 lowering pH. So in planted tanks your pH will vary depending on the time of day you do your test.

The nitrogen cycle uses up carbonate hardness (KH) which reduces the buffering capacity and makes water more acidic over time until you do a water change, get your KH and buffering back up which then stabilises the pH.

Driftwood and other botanicals can release tannins (tannic acid) into the water and lower pH. You might have certain rocks and substrate with minerals that disolve in the water and raise pH.

All taken together these different processes "usually" cause pH in your aquarium to get more acidic over time.

Day to day and even hour to hour pH can fluctuate in an aquarium. Its not always a bad thing, but if you are seeing big fluctuations you should look for a cause as the cause may be a problem.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Just thought of a product that would help with removing detritus without the need for a water change.

https://fluvalaquatics.com/uk/shop/product/provac-powered-aquarium-gravel-cleaner-10-25-cm

You can add some hose and use it for water changes, but on its own it vacuums up water, filters out the detritus, and returns the water back into the aquarium. So you can use it for a daily cleaning without the need for a water change if thats your wish. I keep meaning to get one, maybe its something ill request for a Xmas present this year.

 

[pauldadams1984]

Just thought of a product that would help with removing detritus without the need for a water change.

https://fluvalaquatics.com/uk/shop/product/provac-powered-aquarium-gravel-cleaner-10-25-cm

You can add some hose and use it for water changes, but on its own it vacuums up water, filters out the detritus, and returns the water back into the aquarium. So you can use it for a daily cleaning without the need for a water change if thats your wish. I keep meaning to get one, maybe its something ill request for a Xmas present this year.

Ah that's a cracking idea, thanks. I'll look into getting it.

Ironically, when I did the 2nd 25 % water change/sand cleaning, I considered using some floss and filtering the water back in, yet didn't. That thing would be perfect.

It's a bit more expensive than the manual thing I got from China though

 

[Andy Sager]

Just thought of a product that would help with removing detritus without the need for a water change.

https://fluvalaquatics.com/uk/shop/product/provac-powered-aquarium-gravel-cleaner-10-25-cm

You can add some hose and use it for water changes, but on its own it vacuums up water, filters out the detritus, and returns the water back into the aquarium. So you can use it for a daily cleaning without the need for a water change if thats your wish. I keep meaning to get one, maybe its something ill request for a Xmas present this year.

Looks like a good product. Definitely makes it easier to clean without water changes, especially for spot cleaning.

 

[pauldadams1984]

I expect you could easily do a DIY jobby for the replacement sponge/filtering pad. Otherwise it could become an expensive addition

 

[Airborne 82nd]

Thought you guys might like to see this I have some clear pvc to try and make one. Plus if you allready have the air pump like most of us do it is super cheap.

 

[Airborne 82nd]

Here is another I like even more for my tank because I have pigs in my tank and larger gravel and the fliter floss idea traps more poo. That was one of the main negatives of the fluval reviews that I saw. A lot of smaller stuff going through the stock filter.

 

[Andy Sager]

Here is another I like even more for my tank because I have pigs in my tank and larger gravel and the fliter floss idea traps more poo. That was one of the main negatives of the fluval reviews that I saw. A lot of smaller stuff going through the stock filter.

I like the concept but there appears to be a lot of hesitation from his fish at the disturbance by his hand in the water. The machine Aiken suggested comes with an extender for deeper tanks so it will be less intrusive on the fish. Just my 2 cents.

 

[pauldadams1984]

Just went to buy it but spotted something worth noting. Not ideal with sand/fine gravel, which puts me out the equation

Guessing gets clogged up too easy